Newish To Firearms- need advice

Discussion in 'Knives, Gear, Guns And Other Tools' started by OutdoorsFamilyMan, Feb 14, 2019.

  1. OutdoorsFamilyMan

    OutdoorsFamilyMan Member

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    Wife informed me that after saving up and a tiny bit of help from uncle Sam, she wants me to buy a ccw sized handgun and an AR. My firearm experience is mainly with shotguns because that's all we could hunt with in my area. I've shot a few hunting rifles and handguns a couple times but dont have any real knowledge about either. I do own a couple handguns that were handed down to me when grandpa-in-law passed, but they are older cheaper guns I haven't fired and likely wont due to being safety hazards lol (Bryco Jennings 9mm, FIE Titan 25 cal)
    My budget is extremely low and likely what I should be spending on one decent firearm. I need to keep it under 1k but really want to keep it under 750 if I can. I know, like most things, you get what you pay for....but I would rather buy entry level and train with them until I can afford to upgrade...heres what I've come up with..let me know your opinions, suggestions, tips,advice,etc...
    AR-
    I found at a local farm supply chain a DPMS Panther Oracle 556/223. I'm sure this is lower end but i should be able to pick this up for right around 400-450...which seems a good deal even on a basic AR.
    Handgun-
    I've handled several and see tons of deals from sccy,diamondback,ruger and Taurus that list subcompact 9mms for around 200...Again i'm sure these are bad but they cant be as bad as high point can they? I've found I would much prefer a single stack...if I can swing it I'd like to pick up a S&W shield 9 if I can find a used one from a local shop that's owned by a really good guy...

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Jeff Randall

    Jeff Randall ESEE Knives / Randall's Adventure & Training Staff Member

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    Get ready. You are about to have a flood of thoughts on this :)
     
  3. OutdoorsFamilyMan

    OutdoorsFamilyMan Member

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    That's what i'm hoping for. Im eager to learn lol
     
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  4. Bcamos

    Bcamos Member

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    Here's my thoughts on it....

    1K should be your starting budget for an AR, honestly. But I understand that sometimes that just isn't in the budget. For an AR, you can start off on the cheaper side and still be okay because they're pretty modular and any parts that fail can be replaced easily.

    I would avoid DPMS, as they're just pretty basic and you're going to end up spending more money trying to upgrade the things you don't like.

    With your budget, here's my suggestions:

    This kit (includes upper and all lower parts that you need) https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...weight-m-lok-moe-ept-rifle-kit-516446780.html

    This lower https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-lower-safe-fire-1728.html

    Or even better, this lower https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/ar15-stripped-lower-gen2-anodized-black

    The kit plus lower #1 is a total of $450 except for the transfer fee for the lower, most places do a fee of around $25. So you're in $475 for a decent rifle with iron sights, modern rail system, midlength gas system and PSA's "enhanced" trigger. Plus you get to assemble the lower yourself, which I think is a fantastic idea for any new owner, as it allows them to better understand what does what and troubleshoot their own issues rather than running to a gunsmith. I'm sure people here can help out with the small bit of tools required to put it together. If you're even a little bit mechanically inclined, assembling a lower is a cake walk.


    Second option:

    This upper https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...with-nickel-boron-bcg-ch-mbus-sight-set1.html

    This lower https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar15-moe-plus-ept-lower-black.html

    Around the same price of $450 before transfer fees. You're still getting a modern rail system, iron sights, their enhanced trigger and Magpul bits here and there. Only real difference is that this lower is assembled.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
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  5. Bcamos

    Bcamos Member

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    Now for your CCW.

    I'm going to be rude, and please take it to heart. DON'T CHEAP OUT ON THIS!!!!!

    With handguns, parts aren't as modular as with ARs. You can't just swap out another receiver or internal trigger part as quickly and readily on a handgun as you can with an AR. Not to mention, this is going to be your carry gun, you want it to be something you can depend on. The last thing you need is to be in a situation where you need your handgun to function, and it doesn't.

    With my above AR suggestions, you're all in on the rifle below $500, so this leaves another $500 for your CCW (I'm ignoring your suggestion of lowering the budget to $750 as it's just not practical).

    Stick with 9mm. It gives you more mag capacity over the other single stack options. .40S&W is really snappy in a small handgun and .380 can have questionable results. People may or may not agree with me on this piece.


    My suggestions:

    Glock 19 or 43 - They just work. You should be able to find a used one for under $500. Parts are extremely plentiful as well as mags

    S&W Shield 9 - I have one, and it's pretty awesome. For such a small gun, it shoots really nice. Mags aren't as cheap as Glock because they're metal. I don't care too much for the factory Shield trigger, but an Apex replacement fixes all of that. The Shield can be found for dirt cheap. My sister bought hers for $315 brand new, out the door.

    Whatever you decide to go with, buy a GOOD holster for it. Don't get something made out of nylon, nothing gimmicky. Leather or Kydex only. Trust me, I've had friends that have tried them all, Leather or Kydex will give you the best draw, comfort and concealment over anything else. I'd say plan to spend around $80 for a good holster. You won't carry the gun if it's not comfortable to carry, been there done that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  6. ASH

    ASH Member

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    I was seeing shield 9mm advertised for $250 new most of last year. As far as the rest of the pistols on you list, a hi point would probably be more dependable except for the Ruger.

    I agree with going with Psa over dpms. Either should be fine but I think you get more for your money with Psa. I built a Psa pistol at Christmas for right at $360. But I don't like a bunch of rails. And was given a rear sight.
     
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  7. Ravenous12

    Ravenous12 Member

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    This is great advice.
     
  8. Ravenous12

    Ravenous12 Member

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    In regard to the pistol, my advice is to go to a range that rents pistols that you can try before you buy. Different people shoot different pistols differently. For example, I shoot Springfield XDs horribly, but I shoot Glocks very well. I spent thousands in different pistols until I figured that out.
     
  9. Hammer

    Hammer Member

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    Agreed with all this.

    And to tag on - I think of CCW as a system, not just a firearm.

    Definitely don't skimp on a holster. Comfort is the key to carrying regularly, but a good holster is also a safety item. Get something with rigidity to it and that fully covers the trigger guard.

    If you're going to carry, I would strongly urge looking into a purpose-built, stiff gun belt. Even with a smaller pistol like a Shield, it will make a difference, esp if you are planning on carrying daily. People always think that whatever belt they already have is "good enough" until they try a real gun belt. It's the foundation of the whole system and the difference in comfort will be noticeable.

    I would also say budget for several additional mags and enough ammo to practice regularly. Not trying to suggest you need to go out a buy a whole bunch of stuff and blow your budget, but these few additional items are pretty key, imo.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
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  10. Mountainmistwanderer

    Mountainmistwanderer Member

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    Glock 19. Do you REALLY need an AR. Yes an AR is fun but is it REALLY needed? I'd spend the budgeted coin on a nice ccw plus extras such as a nice holster or two, extra mags and whatever upgrades you desire. Go have a phenomenal date night with the rest of the money.
     
  11. C99c

    C99c Member

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    This exactly.
    If you're buying guns just to buy guns then go buy whatever.

    If you're purchasing a tool to protect your family then buy a quality pistol, a few extra mags. a decent holster and as much ammo as you can.

    Are you planning on carrying it? Or is it just going to be kept in the car or house?

    S&W Shield is a good choice. So is the larger M&P series and the SD9 (or whatever it's called now). Glocks are good choices. Beretta has some guns at a decent price point.

    Don't ignore quality used guns. A used Glock or M&P is a better investment than a NIB piece of garbage.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
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  12. Strigidae

    Strigidae Moderator Staff Member

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    I would add quality training to this.
     
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  13. C99c

    C99c Member

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    While I agree that training is great and needed, I was focusing on his budget for gear. If a beginner pistol class needs to be included then that certainly changes a few things.

    Quality training isn't cheap and a lot of folks from 10 yr olds to 80 yr olds through the years have successfully defended themselves without ever having a class.

    What can prevent one from successfully defending themelselves is a garbage firearm, crap holster ("I wasn't carrying because it's not comfortable/doesn't conceal well/etc") and no ammo because "I'll buy it later" but then something breaks down, someone gets sick and you haven't touched the gun in six months and don't have the cash for ammo.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
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  14. Kevo

    Kevo Member

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    If you do plan to carry be sure to budget for the applicable ccl training and app fees. It looks like Ohio needs an 8 hour class and application fee.
     
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  15. OutdoorsFamilyMan

    OutdoorsFamilyMan Member

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    Training/ classes and range fees/access arent part of my budget....the budget is mainly the firearms am only (ammo and accessories later)
    As to your question MMW....Do I need an AR?

    The short answer is definitely no. But I want one lol.

    The long answer... I'm pre apologizing for the length. I'll attempt to convey my thought process For wanting to buy one. Please feel free to let me know whether you agree, disagree, think I'm an idiot lol, Or offer suggestions, corrections, or substitution. As I said, I am woefully uneducated about rifles.
    I will never buy guns just to buy guns. I feel the same way about firearms As I do about my knives. I own enough to to do specific tasks. They are tools and I Use all of them. (Some more than others) all of my blades (fixed, folder and machetes) fit in a 24x12x10 stanley toolbox with room to spare.
    With that said, and Without getting into politics or hypotheticals, I feel we really don't le what the future holds.. What I do know is That if just about anything were to happen, I would not be able to stay where we are. Which means what I can carry with me is limited so I want a small Arsenal of firearms that serve a specific purpose. This is what I have come up with camera again feel free to make suggestions.
    A couple handguns- strictly for defense- at least 2 but eventually I'd like to have one for every family member (and to be able to use them proficiently)

    10-22 - small game food provision

    Shotgun - close to medium range defense and food provision



    AR Rifle - mid to long range defense and food provision- is there a better suited rifle with decent capacity for this need?
     
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  16. ASH

    ASH Member

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    Now is a good time to buy an ar. I don't remember prices ever being as low as they are now. Ammo has also gotten back to normal.
     
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  17. Bcamos

    Bcamos Member

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    A handgun's main purpose is to help fight your way to your rifle.

    For home defense, a carbine rifle outperforms just about anything else.
     
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  18. Wisdom

    Wisdom Member

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    40 million plus gun owners in the US. I’m on ranges monthly and take 3-4 firearms classes a year all over the US. I see the same folks at the range and in classes based on what region I’m in. That tells me there are more gun buyers than operators. Get a gun you like and learn how to use it. The more you train, the more you will change your gear to meet your preferences and abilities. You have to have the software to drive the hardware!
     
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  19. JV3

    JV3 Member

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    for your budget skip the ar and stick to a quality handgun for now.

    also, people always underestimate the true cost of ammo and just the sheer amount you need to go through yearly to be proficient.

    even a high-end pistol is useless if you can't even hit center mass at 7 yards consistently at the range where you're all relaxed and have all the time in the world to aim, etc.

    the gun world is not for the penny pinchers unfortunately.
     
  20. OutdoorsFamilyMan

    OutdoorsFamilyMan Member

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    Is this just as good as the kits?

    https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...reedom-rifle-olive-drab-green-5165450007.html
     

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