Newish To Firearms- need advice

Discussion in 'Knives, Gear, Guns And Other Tools' started by OutdoorsFamilyMan, Feb 14, 2019.

  1. ASH

    ASH Member

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    I would suggest starting with a 16" with a mid length gas system. Barrel length doesn't affect accuracy, but does affect velocity. A longer barrel will give you a longer sight radius for iron sights which can make precision aiming a little easier. The shorter barrels are more maneuverable but are louder and shoot out bigger fire balls.

    Next up is twist rate. :eek:
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
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  2. Bcamos

    Bcamos Member

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    Correct, barrel length doesn't effect accuracy, it effects velocity.

    For your first purchase, stick to a 16" carbine or mid-length gas system barrel with a 1:7 twist. That's pretty standard and no grey areas to prance around.
     
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  3. OutdoorsFamilyMan

    OutdoorsFamilyMan Member

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    Ok....and that brings me to my next question.. .
    WHAT IS CARBINE?
     
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  4. Bcamos

    Bcamos Member

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    A carbine is basically just a short rifle, so anything shorter than a 20" barrel is what I would consider a carbine. By military definitions, the M16 has a 20" barrel and a fixed stock and is considered "rifle length". The M4 is a carbine, and has a 14.5" barrel and an adjustable stock. Since a 14.5" barrel is considered a short barreled rifle (SBR) in the civilian world, the shortest you can go on a carbine is 16". If you want to pay the NFA tax stamp, you can go as short as you want. I don't recommend that, or an AR pistol for the first time buyer.
     
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  5. Bcamos

    Bcamos Member

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    I just typed that entire thing and then realized that you were asking about my comment of carbine or mid-length gas systems lmao.

    Carbine gas systems are pretty much the standard. They tend to be a little over-gassed and this helps cycle ammunition of all types. Because of the over-gas, the felt recoil can be a little higher. Mid-length gas systems are a little longer than carbine, but shorter than rifle gas systems. Because they're longer than carbine, less gas is sent back to the bolt carrier and less felt recoil is a side effect. The main reason people use it is because most modern ammo is powerful enough to not need the over-gas condition of a shorter gas system for reliable cycling. In all honesty, it's more of a trend than anything else. Both of my rifles have mid-length gas systems, but I won't lie to you and tell you that I can tell a real difference in recoil.
     
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  6. ASH

    ASH Member

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    Wasn't the carbine gas system designed for a 14.5" barrel, so the mid length gas system was later developed to give a 16" barrel the same dwell time.
     
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  7. STPNWLF

    STPNWLF Member

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    Just my 2¢ to the OP even though I'm not a fan of either, budget startup I'd say -
    Find a decent AR chambered in 5.56
    ( it'll shoot 5.56 or 223 whichever you can buy cheaper)
    Find a Glock in 9mm or 40 , either round can be purchased rather cheap.
    Later on 12ga. pump shotgun, and 308 bolt gun. All bases covered.
     
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  8. OutdoorsFamilyMan

    OutdoorsFamilyMan Member

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    You actually answered it in the first post.... i'm nowhere near asking about gas systems lol...is there a gas cap where I have to pour it in? (Kidding...not that clueless)
     
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  9. STPNWLF

    STPNWLF Member

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    LOL, be sure to check your blinker fluid while your at it :rolleyes: Ain't that right @Bushman5 ;)
     
  10. Bushman5

    Bushman5 Member

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    That’s right! Carbine Gas additive, halogen blinker fluid and muffler bearing grease seals!!
     
  11. evilunclegrimace

    evilunclegrimace Member

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  12. evilunclegrimace

    evilunclegrimace Member

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  13. evilunclegrimace

    evilunclegrimace Member

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    I would have to disagree with the 1:7 twist unless he is going to be shooting 77 grain bullets ( 62 gr to some extent).

    The general consensus on twists that I have found is; 40 gr. 1:12 preferred
    55 gr. 1:9 preferred
    62 gr. 1:8 preferred 1:7 second choice
    77 gr. 1:7 preferred 1:8 second choice
    80 gr. 1:7 preferred

    I personally use 1:8 due to the fact that I primarily shoot 55 gr. and 62. gr. The 55 gr. in a 1:8 is a minor trade off but that is mostly for plinking. The 62 gr. is a better match to the twist for precision shooting AND if I want to step up to 77 gr. I am not to far out of the optimum twist for the weight. I think that 1:8 is the best twist for overall use.

    This MY opinion and it works for me. Granted there are lots of variables to consider, different brands of ammo, what a particular barrel likes and then you can bring hand loading into the mix.
     
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  14. daizee

    daizee Member

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    I'll add my opinion to the fray:

    AGREED: spend real money on a CCW piece! It doesn't have to be NEW. If you don't know how to evaluate a used gun, bring a friend who does. There are lots of used semi-autos and revolvers. Ruger, S&W, SIG, Springfield, Glock, CZ, Kimber - can't go wrong quality-wise, for the most part. Budget for holsters, mags, etc. as necessary. Don't get a TINY gun - go with compact instead. You'll shoot it better, and more.

    YES, you are going to spend a bunch of money on ammo. Unless you're going to invest money and time in reloading? That's another thread.

    RIFLE: What problem/role are you trying to solve/fill with this very expensive piece of machinery? How versatile does it have to be? Good time to buy an AR, but they will also *always* be contentious outside of the shooting community. May make it harder to legally bring it with you if you move around. Consider other types of rifles if your use case is not "defensive carbine against humans only". Shotguns are very versatile. .22 rifles of all sorts are very versatile. Lever actions come in so many calibers - versatile. One version of my minimalist long gun list would read: shotgun, .22 bolt rifle, .30-30. But you could swap in a 10/22 and a centerfire bolt rifle.

    Good luck!
     
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  15. OutdoorsFamilyMan

    OutdoorsFamilyMan Member

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    Im not going to even comment on the twist or the gas system stuff lol...that will be discussed later after I've spent a considerable amount of time reading and watching videos...
    As for why I want the AR...I definitely want it for home defense (or wherever I end up) against humans. If it doubles as a means of providing for my family in dire need then that would be a bonus. I do already own or have access to a few different shotguns so those arent a necessity...I assume there are several better rifles for hunting game and eventually I'll end up getting a nice lever action hunting rifle to add to the mix but lets say things get hard for my family before then, would the AR at least be a decent option for meat procurement?
     
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  16. Hammer

    Hammer Member

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    For anything up to deer-size game, 5.56/.223 will work with the right load.
     
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  17. daizee

    daizee Member

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    But not necessarily legally in your area.
    If you're imagining a scenario where that doesn't matter anymore, sure. It'll do the job ok probably. If it doesn't, you'll just try again. Use what you've got in any case. But the SHTF end of organized civilization scenario isn't the environment in which you'll spend most (probably all) of your life, if you're living in USA & Canada. So maybe you'd want to hunt legally and ethically before that time (never) comes, so double-check if there are local rules that you'll need to follow. Each state publishes fish/game/wildlife documents annually that will outline all this.
     
  18. Hammer

    Hammer Member

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    True, not legal everywhere. I sometimes forget that, living where I do.
     
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  19. evilunclegrimace

    evilunclegrimace Member

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    That is one of the bonuses of owning an AR. you can switch uppers and have your choice of over 40 different calibers. One of the newest is the 300 Ham'r from Bill Wilson. It is a low recoil, flat shooting round that closely mimicks the tried and true 30-30 round. https://www.wilsoncombat.com/300-hamr/
     
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  20. Zeek

    Zeek Member

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    Well this may be entertaining and somewhat relevant. Of course it's Yeager so not safe for work / family.
     

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