Snake Bite Kit Recommendations ?

Discussion in 'Wilderness and Tactical Healthcare Management' started by RocketmanDane, Apr 25, 2018.

  1. RocketmanDane

    RocketmanDane Member

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    I am curios what everyone carry's for a Snake Bite Kit?
    I currently have a Sawyer Bite and Sting Kit. See below: Problem thou is that it takes up at least a 1/3 of a the zippered pouch on my chest rig.. SO i am looking for other recommendations OR am i better to stick with my current kit and find a better way to carry it?
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    Curios what folks think of the Coghlans style kit? Size is DEF right...
    [​IMG]
     
  2. STPNWLF

    STPNWLF Member

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    Uum pay attention and don't get bit o_O just saying, course I grew up in snake heaven so. Famous last words, watch me get bit tomorrow by a world record water moccasin:eek:
     
  3. DYSPHORIC JOY

    DYSPHORIC JOY Moderator Staff Member

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    2nd one is worthless. Sawyer may or may not remove some venom. There is not solid data to support the effectiveness. Pit vipers tend to cause a Z-Track type of envenomation that makes venom removal very difficult. Better to head for the CroFab.

    I actually tested the Sawyer for a copperhead bite on my leg. I think I probably received a 1/2 envenomation. I do believe it worked on my second or 3rd Black Widow bite though because I didn’t feel like my ribs were in a vise.

    I will tell you that if you do take a hot hit from a timber in the southeast, you better get quick treatment. Neuro and cytolytic effect is difficult to survive. Luckily they are shy and are difficult to agitate to the point beyond a dry bite. I was lucky when I was nailed by a timber in the hand. Major pucker factor and reinforced my thinking that I wasn’t very smart when I was younger.
     
  4. Bushman5

    Bushman5 Member

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    correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought incisions and suction had been long proven to be useless and possibly even aggravating/dangerous to the victim?

    that being asked, i can attest to the Sawyer kit being great for bee stings.
     
  5. Andy the Aussie

    Andy the Aussie Moderator of the Century Staff Member

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    Compression bandage and head for treatment is the advice given here.
     
  6. Mudman

    Mudman Member

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    I had heard that after you get bit, there isn't much you can do. Other than stay calm. In most areas, we are close enough to civilization to get help. Cutting open the wound, or something aggressive could make things much worse.

    To me it's likely that, as soon as your bit, it's already in your blood stream. I don't think venom is like ketchup or anything, if it was, then yes a suction device might work. The videos I've seen of venom, looks like the same consistency as water. So I can't imagine it hanging around long enough in one area for extraction.

    Although snake bite kits might work in a different way, that may be effective. The idea of a successful venom extraction in itself (even if it really wasn't) could positively help lower the victims heart rate and calm them down. I enjoy seeing them from a very safe distance.

    This is just my opinion of course, I'm definitely not an expert in any way shape or form.
     
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  7. Bushman5

    Bushman5 Member

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    OK from a laypersons view (in regard to venomous snake bites) , what if one administered an IV line / solution and diluted the bloodstream?
     
  8. Andy the Aussie

    Andy the Aussie Moderator of the Century Staff Member

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    I can't see that changing the venom landing where it will do harm. Think about the rate at which blood is moving through your system and via how many channels. You would not be diluting the venom as such (as you can't apply the IV solution directly to the wound site (most probably) and that same amount of venom (even diluted) will be available in the dilute solution. Compression and keeping the victims heart rate down are your best allies. Followed by the correct administration of an antivenin. The later can actually cause as much organ damage as the venom if not applied correctly so it is never something that will be carried around in a kit.
     
  9. Wisdom

    Wisdom Member

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    One of the best snake kits I've found is an iPhone. An air evac membership may help as well.
     
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  10. Jeff Randall

    Jeff Randall ESEE Knives / Randall's Adventure & Training Staff Member

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    Carry a hatchet. If you get bit on the finger IMMEDIATELY chop that finger off and continue on with your trip.
     
  11. Bushman5

    Bushman5 Member

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    AHA! I knew it.....the new Gibson Axe is the new Esee SnakeBite Kit......
     
  12. Strigidae

    Strigidae Moderator Staff Member

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    And here is the bad advice portion of this thread. Never trust a guy on the internet.
     
  13. Andy the Aussie

    Andy the Aussie Moderator of the Century Staff Member

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    ......exactly.... we are all quite aware that once envenomation has occurred it will move through the circulatory system at a rate that would see it pass the boundaries of the digit on which the bite is located. Clearly the victim would, (if the bite was on a finger for example) need to immediately remove the limb at the next major joint. To be safe this would be cutting at the elbow or if you fumbled and thought about it for too long, at the shoulder. Geeeeze Jeff, someone could be hurt because of your substandard advice here mate !
     
  14. mtngoat

    mtngoat Member

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    What if it happens while your asleep on the floor at home?
     
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  15. Jeff Randall

    Jeff Randall ESEE Knives / Randall's Adventure & Training Staff Member

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    It happens...
     
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  16. BrianRowe

    BrianRowe Member

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    A1C09252-009E-4405-B414-3E81458BF4B6.jpeg Just want to share a little info as I deal with snakebite here in South Carolina on a fairly regular basis. Also, I’m only speaking based on my personal experience with venomous species found in the southeast US, I have very limited knowledge of species/envenomations in other parts of the world.
    Gone are the days of the “cut & suck” treatments. There are several reasons for this, but the most important are 1: bites most often are to extremities(hands) and the network of nerves that lies just below the skin surface can be damaged by cutting there. Perhaps it was a “dry” bite with little to no envenomation, yet the patient now has permanent nerve damage secondary to being cut on. 2: Venom is spread throughout the body via the lymph system, almost immediately. The suction devices can’t effectively remove it.
    I’ll share how I treat snakebite.
    Calm the patient and limit their mobility.
    If you’re not a paramedic (on duty) call 911 to get the ball rolling, or if more practical ~ take the patient to a ER which has CroFab on hand. If you live/work in snake country, it’s worth knowing which hospital maintains a stock.
    Carry a Sharpie! If a person it bitten by a poisonous species(besides coral snakes) swelling will be almost immediate. Use the sharpie to mark the border of swelling AWAY from the bite site. Also, write the time on that line. Doing this will tell the physician important info regarding the progression of injury.
    No need for scalpels, tourniquets, compression, etc.
    Do NOT *** NOT seek help. If a bite from a venomous species happens, get to a hospital. CroFab truly works and can often limit tissue damage and/or death!
    Now some interesting stuff. Copperheads are the most prevalent venomous species in the southeast. Their bite is the most painful, yet the least dangerous. I’ve had patients envenomated by copperheads where CroFab was withheld due to limited severity & they recovered completely. Another southeast species, the canebrake rattlesnake actually has neurotoxic properties in its venom ~ like that found in coral snakes and cobras. Speaking of coral snakes... the old wives tale of them only being able to bite in the webbing between your fingers, and like places, is ridiculous! Don’t mess with them ~ EVER! They can strike just as fast as any other snake. The majority of snakebites happen to males, between the ages of 18-30, secondary to alcohol consumption • think “hey,y’all watch this”
    I hope someone finds this helpful. Blue skies!
     
  17. Jeff Randall

    Jeff Randall ESEE Knives / Randall's Adventure & Training Staff Member

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    Brian, all this is great info but I still like my idea the best. But as Andy said, you may have to go a little higher on the limb to chop it off.
     
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  18. BrianRowe

    BrianRowe Member

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    Jeff,
    I’m writing a proposal to our supply folks as we speak for a mass purchase of Gibson axes to be carried on all our medic units:)
     
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  19. Jeff Randall

    Jeff Randall ESEE Knives / Randall's Adventure & Training Staff Member

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    That was exactly what I had hoped for
     
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  20. Andy the Aussie

    Andy the Aussie Moderator of the Century Staff Member

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    Do it right out here and get bitten by a snake and you can just hang the effected limb out over the billabong and a croc will take it right off for you.... in the more southern states you need access to saltwater so you can stuck the limb in and have a Great White, Tiger or Bull Shark remove it for you.... ;)

    The majority of our really nasty snakes here are neurotoxic ! The big issue will always be managing distance, there are plenty of places I go that calling 000 (911 in Aus ;) ) is not possible and then even if you did you are HOURS from someone showing up, same with a PLB, activate it and wait....you may not have the available waiting time. Here compression, and immobilisation are the immediate treatments, the problem with the later is that you may not be able to just wait for help that isn't on the way.... tough choices in that space. In the arse of nowhere my management plan is compression and then get myself or the victim to a point where help can be summoned, in the more remote areas that may mean driving toward the ambulance/aircraft that is on the way.

    Thankfully the majority of snake bites here are in urban areas (there is a reason for this... ;) ) and help is not far away. Our hospitals and emergency services are well versed and effective in managing snake bites.
     

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