Firearms Question for extended bush time

Listen, I know that a lot of members here are form all over the world and carrying a firearm may not be a possibility. However, I'd love to hear everyone's opinion.

What kind of gun do you feel is worth carrying in the bush for an extended period of time?

I'm at a bit of a toss-up... I'm not a pistol guy. In fact, I think a pistol is best used when someone is retrieving their rifle. However, the Colt .45 ACP has always been the go-to. Heck, even the Woodsman in Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer carries one. But I'm a horrible pistol shot and not ashamed to admit it.

A rifle is great for bringing down game. Here is where I get tied up... There is a plethora or scenarios and prerequisites:

-What kind of game? What kind of caliber? Here's a bit of my take...

Well, a .22lr is a great option for rabbit, coyote (maybe), otter, etc but it will never bring down a bear and very rarely would it put down a deer. in terms of self defense, it's useless. But the ammo is inexpensive and weighs next to nothing compared to alternative, high-powered cartridges.

A .30-30 is the old tried and true. With the addition of a handloading tool it's possible to keep reloading the cases for quite a while, given enough powder, primers, and bullets. But, range is limited and it's only well suited for deer, maybe elk, and a few other potential targets. Self defense wise, the gun will easily put down a wild cat easily.

A .308 or .30-06 seems to be the new 'common'. High pressures and reliable makers allow you to take a rifle that will reach out and 'touch' something. That said, the ammunition is heavy (although, no more than 30-30). Both are good hunting rounds and the 30-06 will take down just about anything. The downside to either caliber would be the length, making it hard to quickly use as a self-defensive weapon in a jiffy.

Okay, don't knock me for this one... .223/5.56... I'm not a fan of this caliber for much but it can take down deer, even though it's not recommended. However, availability in both bolt and semi-auto makes it an intriguing option. Ammunition is also relatively inexpensive and lightweight compared to the 30-30, 308, or 30-06.

7.62x39 seems like a great option too. Powerful enough for deer and available in a wide range of setups. Both semi and bolt variants are available. Ammunition can also be found for extremely low prices.

12 Gauge. Let's talk shotguns. No other gun will have this many options. Depending on the slug choice it can easily be used to get a lot of different game. Range is extremely limited and getting a good kill with one is rare, but not impossible.

*There are a lot of other options available in specific calibers but these seem like easy options for off the shelf availability.*


-Weight and Easy of Carry? Here's my take...

I'm a fan of the AR platform... most are not. In the bush it's different and reliability is different. A closed bolt system seems to be more functional and easier to keep clean than the open carrier group of an AR platform. So, I'd say a Lever or Bolt actions would make better bush guns... within reason.

Lever Actions. The Winchester 94 is the image of a 'bush' gun. It's lightweight, has a good kick, and comes in a range of really good calibers. The downside is that you'd have to modify it a bit to accept a sling or hold additional ammunition which can seriously devalue it in the long run. However, the reliability and weight is great. Even Marlin makes some great lever actions but nothing shines like a Winchester and in the bush that shine is likely to fade. With a Win94 it's also a concern if it's made pre '64 (earlier are better made) and where it ejects the case (late models eject to the side allowing an optic to be mounted).

Bolt Actions have most calibers available; especially the larger ones. There are a ton of makers but sometimes cheap is best. I personally like Savage for this option. They're relatively inexpensive but durable. Both their short actions and long actions hold up to abuse. I'd hate to take a well made Griffin & Howe rifle into the woods just to get it dirty and never shoot it. A Savage gets dirty it adds 'character.' The scout series (short action) allows for irons AND an EER (Extended Eye Relief) scope. That is a great option with a decent caliber and fairly lightweight. Weight depends largely on the action and barrel length. In the bush, range is not tremendous but it's nice to have if needed.

Semi-automatic rifles are not off the table either. Mini 14 and an SKS seem to be great options for a bush gun. I'd probably go for a reliable SKS as it's a heavier hitting caliber and many states allow its use for hunting. The major downside to both of these options is weight, weight, weight. Neither are lightweight options and both are pretty sizable compared to the options above. That said, stocks can be modified or replaced to lighten the weight and the length, not not enough IMO. The firepower on the Mini 14 seems light to me (223) and the SKS range seems limited (7.62x39) but no more than a Win94 or bolt 7.62x39. The benefit of these two would be ammunition availability worldwide.

Shotguns... oh my. I'm on the fence with shotguns. The range has me questioning their capability in the bush even though I've never carried one in the bush. Nor have I ever used one to hunt. Any game I saw or ate which was killed with a shotgun either chipped my tooth (buckshot ya'll) or destroyed a good amount of good meat/pelt. 12 gauge seems like the only acceptable choice as a bushgun.


-Why is this a hard decision? My personal struggle...

I want a sling, decent range, and a good amount of ammo. I would sacrifice by adding some weight if it meant there would be a higher possibility of eating; if I'm in the bush. Deer don't always pop out of nowhere and sometimes a squirrel is going to be the best meal. So, I struggle with caliber choice for that reason alone. Do I want to focus on small game or amp it up to medium game? Even if I tag a medium game animal will I be able to preserve it quickly enough?

Next comes safety. I am constantly in bear and big cat country. Having the safety of a hard-hitting caliber is almost a feeling of necessity. The fear of a Grizzly is always on my mind after having an extremely close call in the past.

Weight being a large factor. I over pack and recently have gotten my kit down to 15 lbs w/o food or my blanket/poncho. So, weight of ammunition and a rifle will put me around 25-35% of my body weight which can really take a toll during long hikes. So, moving from one location to another can become limited with heavier firearms. I love to walk for days until I find the perfect camp site, set up, and then stay there for weeks at a time until I feel it's time to move again.




Alright, so I kind of have a struggle with choosing just one, but here are my potential takes for a perfect bush gun:
-Winchester 94 30-30. Either with a rifle backpack or sling system.
-Savage 10 Scout 308. A good scope is essential but these models allow for use of iron sights.
-Savage 111 30-06. Great for all big game but will be heavier than a 'nearly just as capable' 308.
-AR15 .223 w/ CMMG .22lr adapter. This gives a wider range of possible game options. However, it would probably add weight with the additional ammo necessary.
-SKS 7.62x39. Heavy heavy heavy.
-Mossberg 500. My problem is that I feel the need to have a looooong barrel which equates to more weight.


So, my friends. Now that you read this novel, what do you consider to be the perfect bushgun and why? Of the options I have listed above, what would you choose?

 

Personally in my neck of the woods/swamps 6" 357mag, Will take care of most defense and food procurement. Even small game with snake shot/#4 shot,
Now if I was in big Bear country I'd go 44mag.
But since you say your not all that good with a handgun I'd say either a carbine rifle (check into bunny thumpers etc) or a shotgun 12/20/410ga.

 

This is an interesting topic to me for sure. I’m an AR guy because with the right ammo and shot placement you can kill about anything you set your mind to.. but I love .22lr for small game, .44mag for a woods carry revolver, 45-70 with iron sights for my short range “brush gun” , .308 goes a real long way to dump a deer or equivalent, and my 20ga bolt action slug gun makes 2” groups at 100yds all day long. So where do I fit in?! Lol

I think this really all depends on your situation.

SHTF- AR all day everyday. Pistol with it just because.

Camping- .22LR .22mag or 9mm (10/22 takedown fits in a camping pack as does the Ruger PC carbine in 9mm) with a .357 or .44mag for bear and whatever else defense.

Extended hunting trip- .45-70 or .308 depending on terrain and range with a pistol you’re proficient with for that “god forbid” scenario.

Most important is making sure you have plenty of trigger time and are comfortable and proficient with whatever it is you plan on bringing with you. If you can’t make a clean kill on something with a 30-06 because you just don’t shoot it well but you can with a .243 or an AR then it doesn’t make sense to carry that 30-06 just because it’s a bigger round.

My vote goes to “other” because there’s no perfect option, ever. The 30-30 is a damn good option though. But good luck shooting a squirrel and having something left to eat.

 

Just Google "barking" a squirrel.

 

Is that really a thing? I just watched a 2:30 video on it but didn’t see one go down yet. Sounds like a challenge for sure!

 

I'll have to agree with MoS regarding no perfect option.

I'm a huge FAL fan, but they're heavy.

Regarding the tried and true 30-30, I have an Argentine Mauser carbine that's a bit shorter than most lever guns, but more accurate. It's my go to deer rifle, and one of the most accurate rifles I've ever short iron-sighted. Downside? 7.65 Arg ammo can be tough to find.

Honestly, if I were stranded in the woods for an extended time, assuming no societal collapse, I think a Glock 20 would be a good solution.

 

If I had to be in the bush for an extended period of time I'd want more than 1 firearm. And considering (at least for me) the only reason I'm going into the bush for an "extended" amount is if crap has hit the fan. So I'll be just as concerned (if not more) about defending myself as I am about meat procurement...With that said I'd carry a handgun, an AR and one of these
. Chiappa X-Caliber
If you took the aforementioned M6 Scout and gave it a decent trigger system with other caliber options at the user’s discretion, you would end up with the Chiappa X-Caliber. Yes, thank you.

It’s an over/under design featuring a rifled 22lr and smoothbore 12ga barrels that allow you to use chamber inserts for other rounds. This gives you a total of 12 different caliber options. That’s the 2 calibers we’ve had for years in the M6, plus eight pistol calibers (.380 , 9 mm, .357Mag/.38SP, .40 S & W, .44 Mag, .45 ACP , .410/.45colt ), and 2 shotgun calibers (.410 and 20 ga).

That’s a lot of numbers.

6/7Chiappa X-Caliber Systeam

Each insert is a purported to be a high quality barrel machined from steel and contoured to fit into the shotgun chamber. Once inserted, the cartridge or shotshell for that insert can be chambered and fired in the shotgun. X-Caliber inserts can be installed and removed without tools or any modification to the shotgun. Inserts available for 12ga. shotguns include .380acp, 9mm Luger, .38spl/.357mag, 40S&W, .44mag, .45ACP, 410ga/.45Colt and 20ga. Inserts for 20ga shotguns include 9mm luger, .38spl/.357mag, .45ACP and 410ga/.45Colt. The complete kit comes in a high quality nylon case that holds all of the inserts safely and securely. Inserts can also be purchased individually.

7/7Chiappa X Caliber 6

 

Yeah, I tend to agree with you in terms of a SHTF scenario. My mission specific carry would completely change compared to my initial question.

For me, I'd want to carry a longer range rifle (308 or 30-06) with a decent (even if not perfect) optic. However, I would also being an AR in 223 Wylde or 300 blackout and a pistol (45 acp or 9mm or both). My wife would probably get the other long range rifle and also have an AR and pistols.

In these situations my thought isn't on the wildlife but the people I might come across and I would need to be prepared accordingly. These situations would state that a pistol should only be used to get to your rifle.


A situation like this makes me realize what areas I lack: Here are my thoughts on personal improvements.
-Fitness needs to increase for additional weight of ~200 rds of ammunition per firearm and an INCH bag.
-If it was just me and my wife we would need training. She is staying far away so precision shooting is necessary because I wouldn't want her near a fight. For me, I need to work on proper shooting techniques in urban environments and camouflage techniques for the bush.
-Food procurement through foraging techniques would need to improve.
-Natural medication preparedness would need to be corrected and improved upon in case medications run out or in case of injury.
-My tracking skills lack... That becomes a problem when trying to avoid a human.
-Techniques of how to move from bush - urban - back to bush without attracting attention.
-Discrete long-term shelter builds.
-Forest garden prep and cultivation.

All of these are areas that I need to work on before I even contemplate rifle selection beyond a necessity in a SHFT INCH situation.

 

This question really does present a lot of variables, and I guess it really depends on what you're looking to get out of your weapon. When I consider items to bring out with me in general, I like my stuff to have multiple uses. So following that logic, I'd most likely opt for the 12 gauge. It has the obvious advantage of being able to curate shell choice for everything from birds to big game, and a decent enough range with good slugs to get minute of dead deer at 100 yards. If we are talking a survival situation, I'd most likely be more focused on small game anyway so that I don't have the extra worry of large food storage or the time/calorie sink of chasing large animals.

 

Shotgun, end of discussion. Sorry, other platforms are great, and all of them have their place. But their just isn't another one gun to do it all like a shotgun. And if you had to leave your house with one option, not knowing what you'd encounter, this is it. Self defense? Check. Big game hunting? Check. Small game hunting? Check. Winged game hunting? Check. Flare gun? Yup. Fire breathing penis extension? Damn straight can be if you want it to. It's really the jack of all trades.

 

Yeah, I've been thinking about the 'best' option for years. I like your take on a 12 gauge I just don't like the limited range. But you're 100% right about its capabilities.

I personally don't think a .22lr is a good weapon for the bush or survival. That said.... If I had to take a 22 I'd use an AR with a CMMG conversion, in case I came across 5.56/.223

I love how you put 'penis extension' and 'jack of all trades' in close proximity of each other.

 

Every option is going to have its upsides and downsides, but I think I'd probably stick with an AR platform (direct impingement) in 5.56/223 for the following reasons (which you already noted):

• Ammo is fairly light, so you can carry more of it.
• While I wouldn't advocate this for every-day deer hunting, it will take a deer if you're a decent shot. Survival situation = concerns regarding a 'humane kill' are irrelevant
• An AR is easy to open up without anything too specialized for simple field cleaning.

EXCEPT this option isn't going to do **** for grizz. If you're going to arm yourself for grizz, then that's your supreme deciding factor imo, and many of the other factors (ammo weight, capacity, etc) turn into compromises. Personally, I'd probably still carry the AR and then some bear spray on my hip....

 

Have you considered a 12 guage smoothbore with rifle sights?
My Ithaca deerslayer is accurate for deer easily to 100 yards.

 

I am a great fan of the .30 cal family of ammo, because it's so versatile.

I voted SKS -- it's the simplest functioning semi-auto rifle I know of.
they're not "that" heavy - especially if you replace the wood with synthetic.
the 7.62x39 is cheap and easy to find and has essentially the same ballistics as a 30-30.
they're not as inaccurate as folks think, if you find one that's not internally corroded.
mil-surp ammo does a bang-up job killing feral hogs.

OTOH - in keeping with the same round, Ruger American Ranch rifle uses the same mags as the mini-30, is a bolt action, pretty accurate, and reasonably priced.