compasses.

Discussion in 'Survival and Wilderness Skills' started by charlie, Apr 30, 2017.

Tags:
  1. Jeff Randall

    Jeff Randall ESEE Knives / Randall's Adventure & Training Staff Member

    Messages:
    3,297
    Likes Received:
    7,819
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alabama
    My original point being that there are no absolutes. Just when we think we have found them (the world is flat), then science provides us with new ways of looking at things. Euclid based his theories and equations on what he believed to be absolute in his day. And, as you point out, it's good enough for solving everyday problems and is indeed the "standard" for operating in our world. But we don't live in a 2 dimensional world and once we go outside of the very small space we operate in, then what we thought was absolute is not. The faster we go, the slower time gets :)

    So, last question for this compass thread: If I'm sitting on the nose of a spaceship traveling 186,000 miles per second and I take out my streamlight flashlight and point it in the direction I'm traveling and turn it on, what happens to the light? Light speed is a constant and can't change so.....
     
  2. Strigidae

    Strigidae Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    9,060
    Likes Received:
    11,534
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    United States
    What are you wearing while sitting on the spaceship?
     
  3. Odinborn

    Odinborn Member

    Messages:
    368
    Likes Received:
    591
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    East Central PA
    1. If you're on the nose going that fast, you're dead.
    2. Light still works in a vacuum, and the photons cause propulsion on a certain level.
    3. You'll need lithium bromine batteries since you're standard batteries would leak immediately.
    4. The possible heat/cold and radiation would most likely fry your flashlight before you can turn it on.

    I'm not a physicist but imagine you're driving down the road at 60mph and you're holding an apple in your hand. If you release it in front of you, does it slam into your chest at that speed, or does it fall just as if you were parked? The speed of light doesn't follow the rules of physics, as nothing else can go the speed of light. The simple answer to your question is that at 185,999 mi/sec the light would reach the ultraviolet, at 186,000 mi/sec time would stand still and you wouldn't be able to operate it anyways.
     
  4. Jeff Randall

    Jeff Randall ESEE Knives / Randall's Adventure & Training Staff Member

    Messages:
    3,297
    Likes Received:
    7,819
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alabama
    Not sure if this was a serious reply or not :)
     
  5. Odinborn

    Odinborn Member

    Messages:
    368
    Likes Received:
    591
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    East Central PA
    The math is correct, but it was portrayed in a joking way. Time does stand still at the speed of light, and light does reach ultraviolet when it approaches that speed.

    I was a neuroscience major at a large university and took a few more physics classes than I should have. I can't calculate algebra worth a damn, but physics makes sense to me.

    Did I win a prize? Free knives for life?
     
    Zeek and Jeff Randall like this.
  6. Jeff Randall

    Jeff Randall ESEE Knives / Randall's Adventure & Training Staff Member

    Messages:
    3,297
    Likes Received:
    7,819
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alabama
    Very cool.

    So how do we explain the old idea of a light on a train shining down to the floor and bouncing back to the ceiling. If a person times that and it takes (for reasons of discussion) one second for it to go to the floor, hit the mirror and bounce back with the train stopped. Now, if the train is moving and they witness it from outside the train, then it still only takes one second for the light to go to the floor and bounce back but the light has traveled a farther distance because the train is moving while the light is bouncing. If the speed of light is constant...... Not sure what Eistein's theory of relativity has to do with someone just asking how to find a direction with a Suunto compass, but interesting nonetheless.
     
    Zeek likes this.
  7. Dagwood

    Dagwood Member

    Messages:
    2,185
    Likes Received:
    4,739
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Massatuschets
    How did a compass thread turn into a string theory thread
     
  8. Jeff Randall

    Jeff Randall ESEE Knives / Randall's Adventure & Training Staff Member

    Messages:
    3,297
    Likes Received:
    7,819
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alabama
    Well, it's the RAT forum. That's how.
     
  9. JDavidBoyd

    JDavidBoyd Member

    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hudson, FL
    The light would move away from you at ~282 mph. Which would be cool, because you could probably see it heading out at that speed.
     
  10. JDavidBoyd

    JDavidBoyd Member

    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hudson, FL
    What (which?) light would reach ultraviolet at that speed? All light is already traveling at that speed, no? And I don't see how time could stand still at any speed.
     
  11. Dagwood

    Dagwood Member

    Messages:
    2,185
    Likes Received:
    4,739
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Massatuschets
    Touche
     
    Zeek likes this.
  12. Odinborn

    Odinborn Member

    Messages:
    368
    Likes Received:
    591
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    East Central PA
    The idea of moving at the speed of light is just a theoretical idea that is only kicked around in academia obviously. The best example I can give is the spaceship that Jeff mentioned, and using gradual acceleration to watch the theoretical experiment. Place a clock with analog face on the side of the ship that you are able to see from sitting on the nose, and place a telescope for someone down on Earth to watch the clock as well. For the person on Earth, they will watch the second hand move slower and slower as they approach the speed of light, but time will indeed still move forward. It gets crazier when you take into account gradual vs instantaneous acceleration. If the acceleration takes, say 1 minute to reach the speed of light, but the energy burst made it less than 1 second, than for the person sitting on the nose of the ship they will watch the clock not move for 1 minute. For the person watching on Earth, the clock will still move but it will only move 1 second.

    The point is that the Theory of Relativity will state that time will not pass at the speed of light. Anything that contains mass MUST occupy space. When you hit the speed of light, there is no space to occupy because said space becomes infinitely small. At this speed you aren't discussing 1st or 2nd dimension, you're discussing the zero dimension, where there is no space to be occupied. You can see this evidenced when you flick on a spotlight and see it shining immediately from very far away, showing the distance the photons traveled contracted into zero time.

    It's impossible for anything except light to travel that fast, and it's very unlikely they will ever be able to conduct an experiment to turn relativity into a law. This has all been in good fun, even though a thread got derailed for it.
     
    Jeff Randall likes this.
  13. Odinborn

    Odinborn Member

    Messages:
    368
    Likes Received:
    591
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    East Central PA
    Oh, and light doesn't travel at the same speed unless you're in a vacuum. Light is slowed down in denser mediums.

    I'm done... I need a freakin' drink
     
  14. Jeff Randall

    Jeff Randall ESEE Knives / Randall's Adventure & Training Staff Member

    Messages:
    3,297
    Likes Received:
    7,819
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alabama
    Love it. Good stuff Odinborn.
     
  15. JDavidBoyd

    JDavidBoyd Member

    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hudson, FL
    But it's not zero time. It's whatever distance at 182,282 miles per second. (Ignoring speed degradation of going through an atmosphere.)
    So 1 mile would take the reciprocal of that, or 5.37 x 10^-6 seconds.
    To write it out the long way, .00000537 seconds for the light to be seen. Which is a far cry from zero time.

    Anyway, like you said, it's been fun, but back to knives and compasses and survival. Oh my!
     
  16. Jeff Randall

    Jeff Randall ESEE Knives / Randall's Adventure & Training Staff Member

    Messages:
    3,297
    Likes Received:
    7,819
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alabama
    Just so y'all know, Mike and I figure quantum physics into every knife design we come out with. That's what sets us apart from all the other companies. We're working at warp speed on the Izula folder but the faster you go, the slower time gets.
     
    Strigidae and Zeek like this.
  17. Odinborn

    Odinborn Member

    Messages:
    368
    Likes Received:
    591
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    East Central PA
    Well the Infinite Universe Theory would say that there is a universe where the Izula folder is released but we're still waiting on the Expat cleaver. I can't stand the thought of that, keeps me awake at night.
     
    Datilite likes this.
  18. DYSPHORIC JOY

    DYSPHORIC JOY Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    3,837
    Likes Received:
    6,007
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Land of Copperheads and Baccer Spit
    That's what I like about ESEE, data driven philosophy with scientific underpinnings. I have just about stopped my L. Ron Hubbard studies just to follow you guys.
     
    Zeek likes this.
  19. Jeff Randall

    Jeff Randall ESEE Knives / Randall's Adventure & Training Staff Member

    Messages:
    3,297
    Likes Received:
    7,819
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alabama
    You think you can get me John Travolta's autograph?
     
    DYSPHORIC JOY likes this.
  20. Andy the Aussie

    Andy the Aussie Moderator of the Century Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,638
    Likes Received:
    7,359
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Australia
    all I have to add is...well.....SHEEP.
     
    Zeek likes this.

Share This Page