Big changes coming to ESEE Knives

That I understand completely, and would do the same thing.

Agree to disagree on cheapening the heat treat, since you are only optimizing for edge retention and not toughness, as you stated you do with the 1095. Why do it with one and not the other? I run 440C, CPM154 and S35VN at 59 on blades that size and they cut circles around 1095 at similar hardness, and are quite tough. From the sound of it, that knife was being used more as a wedge than a cutting tool.

That being said, you know your company much better than I do, I wish you continued success and thank you for taking the time to explain.

Sam

 

Lol, I hear you Jeff. This is why I don't post on forums much, it can be excruciating to communicate, even when both parties agree. I believe we are in agreement.

I truly sympathize with your situation, I encounter this a lot. My preferred steel is 440C, and done properly I'm not sure I could tell any difference at all between that and CPM154 or S35VN. I try to communicate that to my customers, but many want the upgraded steel because it's trendy right now. I charge a markup, because it is much more expensive than even the 440C.

But that's what many want, regardless of other factors. I'm sure you guys have had to do some gymnastics with the request for "super steel" and the cost vs actual/perceived benefits. Unfortunately, practicality isn't always the driving force for these requests.

Either way, best of luck again and I hope you guys can strike the balance you're after.

Sam

 

So after hearing some more of the context, I would consider what Patrick did a success, then. A little more informal than a "scientific trial" for sure, but after reading his post on it in the other thread it sounds like it had the great edge retention that was desired/expected. Not being facetious, it sounds like exactly what one would expect from that steel at that hardness used that way. Nothing wrong with that.

It sounds like you guys (obviously) had expected this, and at a loss in durability. No problem there, I would just market/charge appropriately. If that's not the look you're going for, then I would agree, it doesn't sound like a good fit.

I don't think it's unreasonable to offer both, unless you decide it's cost prohibitive. We're not in the infancy of the "super steel" craze anymore, and many consumers realize now that there are tradeoffs, e.g. toughness/edge retention/corrosion resistance. But again, you know your customers/market a lot better than I do.

Also, at least now you can say you gave it a try, whichever way it goes. That is more experience/data points gained, and you never know how that will come in handy down the road on another decision.

Sam

 

I agree with you. Stamp clearly has a logical mind and is an intelligent/critical thinker. I liked him doing his own thing, and making it fit him. Where I believe he got into trouble was his methodology, which was often inconsistent or used empirical data, which can get you in trouble when it comes to consistency.

That being said, I think he got crapped on more than deserved when on certain forums or made some people feel insecure. Also, he probably should have left Bill Harsey alone, lol.

I appreciate you spending the time to explain everything. Thank you.

Sam

 

Between @Jeff Randall and @Sam Wilson I got so lost.... Either way I just want a Xancudo

 

I propose heating and beating two knives together.
Via the RLP (Redneck Lamination Process)

The resulting SV1130VN should exhibit the best of both worlds.

One has to assume that Jeff Randall’s discussion here, serves several purposes.

First and foremost to warn the masses of the hype of super steels.
But also to explain just how good 1095 really is.

My dear old dad always used to say;
“The solution is almost always, worse than the problem”

Any time the owner of a company takes time out of his day to bash one of his latest products.
I think we should sit up and take notice.

What other reason could he possibly have.
Other than to inform folks about their expectations.

To many folks this will never matter.
To others it may or will.

ESEE, as Jeff points out, has always been a tough use tool.
Carry that forward, people come to depend on their ESEE knives.

I think he is wise and honest, almost to a fault, to post up his feelings and his findings.
A ballsy move, that has earned a great deal more of my respect.

 

I wouldn’t mind seeing it in the CR2.5, that would just be sweet. I will still press on with my trusty 1095 one cuz rust don’t hurt user blades.

 

I just put the cr2.5 in my cart can’t wait to buy it. I was going to just wait and get it when I order the new knives. But don’t know if I can wait.

 

I like the way you think.