IMHO a good leather sheath is more than 2 pieces of leather sewn together. A lot of wet forming and weather proofing goes into this.
I've used many of our sheaths quite a bit over time...I know Patrick Rollins carries his PR4 in leather sheath daily...and have never had an issue...it's one of the reasons they our sheaths are significantly deeper than most. This is not a right/wrong debate as I see it...you have a different experience that we do...and as such are perfectly entitled to your opinion...however, as one of the guys that fields the lions share of emails regarding issues like this I can tell you with absolute certainty that your comments are in the minority that we see... Take the information for what it's worth...just providing some observations from the other side of the argument.
Our leather sheaths are not "fancy" but we made them deeper on purpose...to prevent loss. As previously stated we have FAR more complaints about it being hard to remove the knife from the sheath. I started putting a 4-5 Knot lanyard (snake knot) on everyone one of our blades just to assist in removing the knife for the leather sheath and this is just enough to aid in removal without getting in the way. Everyone is entitled to their opinion...we are 100% OK with that but the complaint is in the minority as far as what we see and have experienced on this end. I don't know anyone that uses a fixed blade knife more than @Patrick Rollins ...if he's wearing clothes, he's got a fixed blade on his person....We were in the field more than 170 days last year and Patrick's knife rides in a leather sheath 24/7. Personal experience matters and we should agree to that statement....what works for one may not work for another but I RARELY speak in absolutes about what is and is not correct for all.
It is possible that not many guys complained about the retention, but if you compare the retention of the leather sheath of the 3 and 4 HMs to the molded plastic of the regular 3 and 4 - there is just no comparison. Yes, it is a deep sheath, but after a bit of use, if you flip it upside down, the knife simply falls out - this happened to my 3 with the black leather, huge ESEE logo on front and the 4 with the brown leather, no logo. Again - not an issue with the material, as it is a good, thick leather, but with how the sheath itself is made. I don't speak in absolutes, just telling what happend with my own 2, personally purchased knives and sheaths. All my conclusions are based on them.
Wet forming is NOT something a company our size is willing to take in in a Mass production way. It's just not feasible on a large scale for production. I get you don't like the sheath and you are more than entitled to feel that way. Where I disagree is with a blanket statement that Leather isn't suitable for a hard use knife....Again, this is not a right or wrong debate, do what works for you...but I know guys that spend more days in the field than ANYONE else I know and leather is their go to option and they carry it by choice without complaint.
This was the statement I disagreed with...and really the only issue I had with anything you've said. I have no doubt that what you are saying is true....like I said, we are not debating...just providing some insight from our side of the coin. Have you tried to wet form the sheath? or possibly look for makers near you where you won't have to pay VAT?
I understand that we have different positions, it would be good if folks with leather sheaths chime in. I can't be the only one with such an issue. I could agree that a leather sheath can be well suited to hard use, as I like some sheaths for the 6, can't remember the company, think it was something like Hedgehog, but they were going 150$ per sheath, Randall style.
Yeah, you are correct here. I don't like absolute statements myself. I will say it in other words - a lot needs to go into a leather sheath, so it can match the ruggedness and retention of a plastic one. Actually I did wet formed the 4's sheath- got awesome retention that faded over time. Just how leather is, without special treatment. As for custom guys - there are plenty of them, but it seems it's hard for most of them to make a decent kydex for a knife without a guard. Don't know why, I'm not into kydex making myself. Will just order kydex from ESSE as I know it will be good.
Tons of leather makers our there making great stuff...Hedgehog is nice stuff for sure...so is Sagewood...both are pretty expensive. JRE Industries makes great sheaths at a more affordable price.... I'm willing to bet that there are makers across the pond that provide something in Kydex to your liking. VAT is something we hear about a lot but have ZERO control over...We are often surprised that our knives sell as well as they do in EU and abroad. Our folks in Australia are really taking a beating on price as well.
So try this....you might dip the knife in Bees Wax. I have a knife made by Nick Allen of NWA Knives and his LEATHER sheaths give an audible "CLICK" like a Kydex sheath... all dipped in Bees wax. The HM series does give some kydex makers fits (us included) because you have to have retention on the handle and in some cases on the blade itself.
I know there are leather sheaths that click like kydex, almost the same happened to mine after wet forming. The knife literally stuck in there. Honestly I don't have desire to try to improve it more, for now it's tightened with a zip tie and the kydex will be ordered soon.
Hey Shane I wasn't arguing any fact with you. I've never used 1 to judge it, but I will buy 1 and more then likely be completely happy with it. Yall make things that work, I expect whatever I purchase with an esee logo to do just that. It's not like yall don't use these things yourselves and have no experience with them. You guys know what you make, keep it up. Thanks.
No arguments at all. You were rolled up into a conversation that was taking place at the same time. No worries at all.
A ESEE 5 LT (light). Yeah, I remember this being brought up in this thread a while back. 100% agreed. I had an ESEE 5 for approximately 36 hours before it was gone. Blade size and profile was fine. Thickness was not. I will carry a 6HM in lieu of a hypothetical 5LT. But the 4 and 6’s thickness on the 5 profile would be great.
Yeah, I was just looking into the ESEE 5. Didn't realize that the 5's blade is actually thicker than the 6hm.
It’s hefty, but you could cross baton chunks out of telephone poles with it. Mine started cutting like a thinner stocked blade once I thinned the edge and convexed it on sandpaper and a mousepad.
Don't confuse my idea of a thinner stock 5 for me not loving my 5 the way it is. It is a perfect knife as is. I just think a thinner version with the same shape would be also killer to have if your not trying to chop or split. I actually have been carrying my 5 on me during the day and a lighter version would fair better for this. I'm pretty damn happy with what I got though.
Stainless hardware for the xancudo, well maybe an option for all esee's? They look so much better, imo.
